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  • #16
    Welcome Back Sir.
    Pat
    *Donovan Stables*
    Operating out of Ohio, to breed the next D/D Champ!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Greeko Holdem View Post
      I found out who the only no vote was,

      Q told me it was that Crook Brian !!!!
      lol i was the second no just to be an ass. besides if tock builds a stable like before I'm asking Freddie for a raise
      ** at 21:06, Brian joined the Lobby...
      Brian Ta Das...

      https://www.facebook.com/digitaldowns.us
      https://twitter.com/Digitaldowns_US

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      • #18
        Yo Crook Brian you don't need no more raise here Bro you are done getting raise here Lone told me you are on the edge of getting the pink slip soon For not doing your job right here any way Crook El Chapo Guzman Brian m8 Welcome Back Toc

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        • #19
          Nothing against you Toc, but my vote is NO and for very good reason. YOU USE TO OWN THIS DAM SITE. You know it in side out and behind the curtains. Pretty friggen odd Greeko says he is leaving and you pop in. Im not a fool and can spot a scam when I see one. But I think this site has been shady for some time now. Ill sit back and watch what happens. Do what you want guys, you always do WCR

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          • #20
            I hope you reconsider and stay . I do not know why you would think site was shady . You have done well since you came back and I hope you have enjoyed yourself too. I would say that its like poker . Someone can know how the poker site works , but if you cant see the cards that are coming you have no advantage . Toc can no longer see the cards that are coming . He agreed that he would start from scratch . He has a long history of racing as a stable ,and I suspect that he will maintain about the same percentage of winning as his past . Some highs and some lows , but his stats will stay about where he was. Everyone will be able to see his stats . Thanks and Good Luck
            Admin.

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            • #21
              LoL...some funny posts here. Welcome back Toc, the game is now twice as expensive with no value added. Good luck.
              Doing is the best way of saying

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              • #22
                Winner - There is only one Toc and there will only ever be one Toc.

                As far as owning the site years ago..there is nothing I saw that makes one difference or impact on racing or breeding. I'll be happy to share anything I can that will help anyone. I spent most of my time building the race card and upgrading the site as a whole.

                We all have the same jockeys, same instruction options, same races to enter. We have different horses and strategy. I don't live under a tree so there is no shade here....I'm and open book! If you need help just ask.
                Tockyocky Racing
                From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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                • #23
                  First of all I would like to thank the site for trying to be transparent about this issue but I dont share the excitement at least at first glance.

                  If in the hypothetical event I bought this site been a virtual horse racing player there are many questions I would ask as soon as i sign the documents and find out on how the site works from the race engine to breeding, the ins and outs of it.
                  Questions like:
                  What is the best and worst horse, time trials wise at every distance out there in the pool of unborn horses?
                  What makes a horse competitive?
                  Is such thing as heart? How can you spot it?
                  Why fresh born horses seem to outclass same age born earlier horses?
                  How long a horse remains competitive before quietly vanishing into cheap claimers? Is this time based or number of races based?
                  What is the immediate and subsequently effect of gelding a horse in races?
                  Why gelded horses competitive lifespan is shorter? or Why most dont live up to the time trails in races?
                  Is there a random factor deciding the outcome or outweighing the outcome of a race and how big is the effect?
                  Has the random factor have anything to do with Jockeys?
                  Are horses with great trials and bad races subject to a bad random factor embedded in the horse? Would this never go away?
                  Are starting gates a big factor in races? how big?
                  Is there such thing as a horse been blocked in a race or the race engine dismisses that option?
                  About breeding, players say the first foal off a mare is usually the best, does this mean is worthless to keep trying?
                  Same question about Sires?
                  How do you know a sire "may" be good?
                  What are the effects of equipment, shadow roll, blinkers and tongue tie? What do we do if a certain equipment does not improve neither decreases time trials?
                  What is the advantage in real terms of horseshoes?
                  Vet Clinic, some few horses take all 3 meds, mares seem to pass on this feature, is this true? What does it then? Does not seem totally random.
                  Create horses? Is it worth it to buy them? What is the best in time trials in the create pool? How many % wise are within the best?
                  Bred horses, best horses? How to get one? can this happen with a mediocre sire and mare? what are the best trials horses can do? Who controls this? What are the odds of getting these top horses?
                  Age changes? Are these fair and square across the board or some improve more and some less?

                  These are just a few questions I would find out the answers as soon as I am allowed to if I owned the site as I play virtual horses! and is obvious I want to know, so if the answer to any of these questions to some degree of backing, explanation and/or numbers regardless of how silly or obvious some of these questions may sound to some p[layers, if any is known by any player and not to the rest of the community by means other than trial and error by playing the game then that player should not be allowed to play the game, is called been an Insider. Unless the site wishes to share all the points above and many I dont know the questions much less the answers to as I am a newbie with all of us so we can all be enlighten.

                  I am ok not knowing the answers to these questions but not happy at all if a player knows the answer to any from any other source but been just a player.








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                  • #24

                    Some great questions Desperado. I'll let Freddie answer them as he knows a bit more specifics than I do. Ie. how many horses are in the pool for creates and the like and he would probably do a better job answering that I would. Some of those have been answered on the board before but I know its hard to search for old posts on this board. Maybe when the answers are posted we can sticky them somewhere for all to see.

                    As far as the site being shady This is a typical reaction to many in a site like this. Remember when everyone said that the poker sites were rigged because they got more bad beats than they did in live tournaments but didnt take into consideration they were playing 20 times more hands per hour or more because the speed of the site. A typical response that comes from it. I didnt win so it must be rigged. Call it human nature or what have you. I know I've done it myself at times.
                    I've always shot straight when it came to anything that made me question the level playing field. Norm might even have screen shots still where I called out the previous owners on things like this. But those days are long gone.
                    ** at 21:06, Brian joined the Lobby...
                    Brian Ta Das...

                    https://www.facebook.com/digitaldowns.us
                    https://twitter.com/Digitaldowns_US

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      First of all I would like to thank the site for trying to be transparent about this issue but I dont share the excitement at least at first glance.

                      If in the hypothetical event I bought this site been a virtual horse racing player there are many questions I would ask as soon as i sign the documents and find out on how the site works from the race engine to breeding, the ins and outs of it.
                      Questions like:

                      What is the best and worst horse, time trials wise at every distance out there in the pool of unborn horses?
                      There is no such thing...there is no pre set floor or celling for times. So many factors go into a timed work and race.

                      What makes a horse competitive?
                      Competitive is a very vague word to use here. Good trainers can make most horses competitive with proper placement and instructions. There are no back end settings for competitiveness.

                      Is such thing as heart? How can you spot it?
                      People use the word heart usually when a horse trains better than it races. I use the word dexterity...some horses are better running alone than with a crowd. There is a dexterity % within the horse attributes. However none of us including myself can know this. That is also why some horses run better with 4 horse fields than they do full fields.

                      Why fresh born horses seem to outclass same age born earlier horses?
                      Its not about the same year but rather wear and tear etc. Fresh horses are well...fresh. Kinda speaks for itself. I can't breed a horse and see this info. Proper use of the race card helps extend the racing career of a horse.

                      How long a horse remains competitive before quietly vanishing into cheap claimers? Is this time based or number of races based?
                      Every horse has a races run factor or multiplier built into the horse's attributes. Horses can also improve or worsen based on age. Some horses run less effectively after one race and some after 20 races and some very little at all. I as a stable do not have access to this information. Also horses don't vanish to claimers...they are sent there. Often prematurely.

                      What is the immediate and subsequently effect of gelding a horse in races?
                      Gelding effects the horses attributes. There is a random impact factor built in for all colts and applied when gelded thus changing the attributes for better or worse. Subsequent results would be like any other horse after gelding. I do not have access to this info either as a active stable

                      Why gelded horses competitive lifespan is shorter? or Why most don't live up to the time trails in races?
                      I have answered this above already...but if you researched past results you would find some awesome gelded horses with long careers.

                      Is there a random factor deciding the outcome or outweighing the outcome of a race and how big is the effect?
                      There is no pure random factor. Randoms here would be things like gate draw etc. Thats a true random. horse color can be random. The horse attributes at birth are pulled from math formulas on bloodlines with a range of possibilities. Claims are random. It truly is mostly a skill based game based on information that is available to you by training and racing. I have no access to randoms as a participating stable. This is not like other sites where the random jockey assigned determines the outcome of a race. A born create is randomly created setting off a new bloodline.

                      Has the random factor have anything to do with Jockeys?
                      No. I believe Jockeys are still assigned by selections made and horse wins...not sure if this has changed.

                      Are horses with great trials and bad races subject to a bad random factor embedded in the horse? Would this never go away?
                      No...I explained this above. Its more of a dexterity factor. A factor that can not be seen. This factor does not go away...it is always applied in the math.

                      Are starting gates a big factor in races? how big?
                      Starting gates are a factor like anything else. Primarily...the starting position of your horse. Think the rest through. There is no pre set gate draw that determines a race. Every gate can produce a winner in any race. Remember that any research on gate draws and wins is a bit flawed because of field sizes. Gate draws become a part of your skill as a trainer. Meaning instead of crying about a gate draw do something about it.

                      Is there such thing as a horse been blocked in a race or the race engine dismisses that option?
                      Please remember that the video feed is just trying to give you a visual of what the race result actually was. Lanes and blocking do apply and do have impact on a race but the video is doing its best to reflect the race process and result. Also...there is nothing i benefit from here. I knew this before I even registered for my account 4 years ago.

                      About breeding, players say the first foal off a mare is usually the best, does this mean is worthless to keep trying?
                      No this is a false narrative. There have been and still will be many great horses that are bred at different stages.

                      Same question about Sires?
                      No this is a false narrative

                      How do you know a sire "may" be good?
                      You don't know anything may be anything until you try. What you do know is how the horse performed on the track...that is partly due to the bloodlines. Its safe to say on average better breeding results are with high grade horses than they are with low grade. Doesn't mean a low claimer won't breed well. The claimer could have great breeding attributes. So just know that I don't see any of this information as a trainer. I take what I know about the bloodline and the performance on the track etc and come up with a plan. Or not!

                      What are the effects of equipment, shadow roll, blinkers and tongue tie? What do we do if a certain equipment does not improve neither decreases time trials?
                      I can't tell you the affects. I can tell you that there is an affect. This is also built in the many attributes of the horse at birth. Some passed by bloodline. You learn this when you train the horses and apply different pieces trying to keep all other variables the same. There is nothing I see as a trainer that will tell me the affects before I actually experiment.

                      What is the advantage in real terms of horseshoes?
                      Its like any other piece of equipment...you either need them or you do not. I believe most shoes are useful.

                      Vet Clinic, some few horses take all 3 meds, mares seem to pass on this feature, is this true? What does it then? Does not seem totally random.
                      It is not totally random. It comes from the bloodline. There is a formula during breeding. Again...I can not know this or see this as a trainer. Also not just a mare thing. What about blinks, roll and tongue? It's a rabbit hole that doesn't nee anymore explaining than you need to test them all. It's not a mare thing and u dont need all 3 or all 6 to be successful.

                      Create horses? Is it worth it to buy them? What is the best in time trials in the create pool? How many % wise are within the best?
                      There is no "best" or floor or ceiling. Just a range that is not set in stone. Yes..creates are worth a shot. Every great horse in this game at one point in its bloodline was from a create. Also...there is nothing I can see as a trainer that will tell me that when i click breed create button i will get a great one. That is a random event. I believe but i'm not 100% certain that there are close to 100,000 Sires and Mares in the create pool. When you breed creates you are getting the attributes from this pool. Its been a long time and don't know the exact number. With some experience you may find that creates can breed better than they race. If all creates were dominant than the breeding aspect of the game would be eliminated. Sometimes you have to use second level thinking when trying question surface level stuff.

                      Bred horses, best horses? How to get one? can this happen with a mediocre sire and mare? what are the best trials horses can do? Who controls this? What are the odds of getting these top horses?
                      Bred or create can yield great horses. You get one by experimenting. Yes it can happen with a mediocre sire and mare. There is no set floor or ceiling for trials. There is a range that is fluid. No one controls it. Its in the attributes and formulas. Odd? Well there is no "odds" in the back end. What type of breeders do you have? Are they high end performers? Do they come from a good proven lines? Do you even know what your doing while training to even make a determination. (not meant towards you specifically). Again as a trainer i do not benefit in any way with this info and I don't see any attributes just like you.

                      Age changes? Are these fair and square across the board or some improve more and some less?
                      Some more some less. All built into the horses attributes and multiplier factors. Again I don' have access to the specific numbers. I can just answer ur question. There is an age change impact.


                      I hope this helps. Truth is i don't benefit in any way by knowing how a site works. I knew how this site worked way before I got here because there are similarities between all of these sites. My first 3 months were pretty tough going up against the old guard here. I created many excel workbooks and held the data and learned this game. I just control what I can and wish the best result on the rest. As a trainer i have a very good track record. It comes from having a good skill set and strategy backed up by a wallet.

                      Feel free to ask a follow up question

                      Toc
                      Last edited by Tockyocky Racing; 10-11-2018, 06:50 PM.
                      Tockyocky Racing
                      From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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                      • #26
                        welcome back toc

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                        • #27
                          Evening Toc nice to see you again.

                          Eddie

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                          • #28
                            Moved to new channel due to Tock's response on the above questions so it could be stickied for future reference.
                            ** at 21:06, Brian joined the Lobby...
                            Brian Ta Das...

                            https://www.facebook.com/digitaldowns.us
                            https://twitter.com/Digitaldowns_US

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                            • #29
                              I would just like to address a comment to those who want to think that Toc is the same person as Greeko or anyone else...Think about it!!!...if Toc had been playing masquerading as someone else why in the world would he now want to open a stable under his own racing name and subject himself to your skepticism instead of just continuing to pretend he was someone else. That would make no sense but some people just don't use any common sense.

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                              • #30
                                Some people are just paranoid, welcome back Toc
                                Speed doesn’t matter as much as direction.

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