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  • Creates Next Season -

    We are going to make it more like breeding a horse . The sex of the horse will be random and we will remove the 3yo option . All creates will come with the DD optioned added . We will leave the price at only 5k . We might make the change a few days before next season to test . We have a few more announcements for next season coming in the next couple of days . Thanks and Good Luck .
    Admin.

  • #2
    I would also like to congratulate AMRS and Chris for winning the Creates Route Challenges last night.

    9 Mechanical Beast Chrisman Gomez G 120 65520 2:31.37
    8 Raiding Vegas 2020 And More Racing Stable Bridgmohan S 118 46116 2:32.21
    Admin.

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    • #3
      I'm sure you've given some thought to this, however 1/2 price creates are going to devalue true breds. Now there won't be the premium put on investing in future breeders. All you have to do is just keep pulling the lever, like a slot machine. I also don't see why you would want the majority of horses on the site to be creates. It should be mentioned that there have been repeated attempts to throw creates at us. It hasn't improved the create racing at all. To protect the value of Breds, I would prefer you adjust the creates back to how they used to be, talent wise. I don't really want to play a game where 1/2 the population of racers are creates. They don't have any character.
      I guess I don't have an opinion either way on the 3yo's. I haven't really thought about it. I know there is a school of thought that the good ones dominate, because they haven't had to endure the age changes. This may be true, but it is relatively rare. The trade off is the shortened life span. I have tried to breed a lot of 3yo create fillies to short-cut the time to breeding, but that also is an iffy propositition.
      While it's always been puzzling to me why more create claimers and such don't get off, I'm not sure they will now,
      I have a feeling this is a move to help smaller stables make inroads into premium racing without having to establish their own foundation. The fact is, this won't help because the bigger stables will adapt and spend a disproportionate amount on creates as well. The smaller stables will still be at a disadvantage, by sheer volume.
      Any thoughts?? I'd like to hear from some of the bigger breeders in the game.

      Comment


      • #4
        Since I joined the game, I've never liked creates from a racing stand point but love them when they retire as breeders.

        I also understand that creates generate revenue for the site and keeps it alive and well.

        I would get rid of create races all together but have creates.

        The focus should be the race card as we have way too many races to choose from.

        Comment


        • #5
          VERY Good Create horses should be INCREDIBLY RARE.

          Everything else at Digital Downs should stay roughly the same.


          Does it need to be more complicated than that?

          Take what Foggy said, multiply it for me by ten thousand, and condense it down to the 2 sentences in blue above, and I believe Dan and myself see this PRECISELY The same way.

          Dan, are these 2 sentences sufficient? Because if I hear you correctly, we are on the same page. Building a stable, a breeding bloodline, etc..... It's 90% or MORE of the glory, the prestige, and the allure of this game.

          This is NOT Candy Crush. This is NOT WSOP. This is NOT Clash of Clans. It's a complicated, season-over-season endeavor that requires the cerebral aspect, the breeding trials.......I'll always remain puzzled at race results, but that's another conversation.....and even at that, my own demons/frustrations are almost always legitimate racing errors on my part.....whether it be race card placement, lack of preparation, attraction to a large purse when the horse needs EVERY possible stroke of luck, etc.....

          But back to the issue at hand, see the 2 sentences in blue above, period.

          [EDIT] 5 horse field minimums.......don't REFUND, instead, postpone until the minimum gate is satisfied, then run that day or the following day. Bigger payouts, bigger fields, REAL fields, as 3-horse fields in my opinion RUIN the shelf-life of potentially VERY good horses, and thus have caused me to be MUCH more reluctant to nominate early..... Typically, Orb Farms is one of 2-3 barns who "get the ball rolling" by nominating a horse into a race historically, and this attracts more horses....This season, I have not done this, and of course I also have been hamstrung by financial issues......but I see how it impacted race fields and the race card.

          AND ONE FINAL point....If you want to make an announcement that will make some noise, announce that WORKOUTS for newly bred horses of ANY ilk will ALIGN more with ABILITY.........create or home bred. Workouts need to matter.....somehow they seem to matter very little, outside of desired distance.

          My best,

          Orb
          Last edited by Orb Farms; 04-19-2018, 04:41 PM.
          - Orb Farms

          Comment


          • #6
            Here's my take from the standpoint of a smaller stable that breeds a lot. Obviously I don't breed what the larger stables do but I do breed a pretty fair amount as I currently have about 33 2yo and have bred or created probably at least 3-4 times that many. I think it depends on your perspective of what a VERY GOOD create is. I believe that the VERY good create is already a rare commodity. I currently have I believe about 50 horses in my stable and about half of them are creates. All of the creates except 2 are claimers. Both of them are 3yo. They are good but I don't consider them VERY good compared to bred horses. One just won the create route championship and the other should be the favorite in her create sprint championship. Other than the create championship series they run in DIV/ALW/TCR/high claiming type races. They are competitive there but far from dominate and I believe that if a create is create championship caliber then they should be able to compete with breds of less than championship caliber. Neither is DD champ eligible and I would not spend the money to try them because I don't believe they are that good.

            I generally buy creates only for contests, specific create challenges, etc. I have won several of those and yet most of those winning creates wind up as claimers. As an example...the create I won the Sin City Challenge with then showed little afterwards in ALW company and will next be seen in claiming company. If your idea of they shouldn't compete with breds means they shouldn't be able to compete at any level then I disagree. I believe they should be able to compete at a slightly lower level than they can with creates and the VERY GOOD one should be VERY RARE and I believe that is already pretty much the case.

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with Foggy, except that regular breeding fees need to be reduced as well. $5 versus $10 is a no brainer. I will buy creates over hombreds all day long. Is that the what the site wants? I just won the Sprint championship with a create so they can definitely compete with homebreds.
              Doing is the best way of saying

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              • #8
                I agree with you AMRS, because I look at the career earnings board.........In my career, I spent 34k US currency to build bloodlines and buy creates.......and I don't think I am even in the top 14........ So, I think preservation of home-breds is important, If creates are going to be a bigger part of the game....I speak of future seasons.....I agree that they are are fairly rare commodity today, as you reiterated.......Again, I speak of Season 40 and forward.

                Ironically, you probably bred and created more than myself this season, so you would have more perspective than me in the present..... So I digress and defer to you and other owners who were a larger factor this season with breeding, creating, and racing..... I just don't have enough of a sample in my own barn, i.e. breeds and creates, to present a factual Season 39 case....I am merely pointing out my opinions based on my very small sample size this season, but with much larger samples from 8 or 9 seasons past....

                [EDIT] However, I LOVE the idea of making Creates much nearer to regular breeding, in that gender is random, etc.... I like the direction

                My best,
                Orb
                Last edited by Orb Farms; 04-20-2018, 05:02 PM.
                - Orb Farms

                Comment


                • #9
                  Same here Orb. Over the last season and a half since I've been back, I spent a tremendous amount of money on developing a large breeding foundation. It would be a shame to see a huge influx of cheap creates come in and neutralize my breeding efforts. As usual, somewhere in the middle is probably the way to go. Maybe not dirt cheap, but reduced.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We need more input from owners like Dan, Buddha, and AMRS to provide input to Admin/Ownership, so that we have some semblance of site harmony, direction, and agreement. No one can be deemed correct or incorrect......Everyone is entitled to present their view, and we need to hear those views in my judgment, for the best interest of our future......

                    Owners?

                    Orb
                    - Orb Farms

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's where I agree...
                      First, I absolutely love the idea that creates will be created randomly. One of the things I dislike most about buying a 10 pack is going thru and clicking each one as to sex and color.
                      I also agree that the site should not be overrun by creates which is why I agree that the price for creates and breds should be closer. Whether that means you reduce the bred price or raise the create price or a combination needs to be an ownership decision based on what Lone believes is best for the sites bottom line but like Dan and Buddah both said $5 versus $10 is too much of a spread. I would be OK with both prices being the same for individual purchases and then a discount for a 10 pack purchase as long as creates can be reasonably competitive.
                      I do believe there is a place for creates especially as Greeko says they infuse new blood into our pedigrees. Just look at Forgotten Magic...her Dam The Forgotten is a create. I think it's a good thing to have the addition of new bloodlines but I also believe that creates need to be competitive otherwise they are too costly. It's already costly when you buy a 10 pack in order to usually get 3-4 competitive horses if you're lucky. On average it's probably 2 per 10 pack. If they aren't competitive on the track and can only earn $10K or so when you spend much more than that to buy them, vet them, race them 10 times or more, etc. there are many stables that can't afford to try and develop new breeding lines. They have to be able to have some reasonable earnings on the race track and I think if the price to create them is more in line with the price to breed then it makes sense.

                      Edited note...I'm not saying that creates should be more competitive than they are now. I think the ratio of about 20%-30% competitive creates from a 10 pack is about right. I just don't think they should be made less competitive either. What I think mostly is that their cost should be more in line with the cost of breeding.
                      Last edited by And More Racing Stable; 04-21-2018, 12:53 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think everything you guys are saying is falling on deaf ears and your never going to convince Lone that we love breeding our own horses and having some control on what type of horse we want or need to complete our stables such as maybe you need a few sprinters or classic or a few route horses. GOOD luck trying to fill these with pull tab creates.

                        At the start of the season Dog (Brian) set up a breeder race that was run at 7F called Futurity. It was the most exciting race ever on this site. Everyone got involved trading breeds, sending PMs, claiming breeders, the place was booming with excitement all trying to win bragging rights. GOOD luck trying to set up a race like this with pull tab creates.

                        Admin can say I got it wrong and they are only trying to help fill the cards, but when I see creates at half price and DD fees included it tells me the site wants to replace breeders with creates. Its a dam slap in the face when I'm being charged to pay champ fees to race my bred horses against a 5K create with added DD. Its bad enough creates don't run in create races as often as they use to and I'm sure they will be running in stake races more then ever now. WHAT A SHAME!!!!! I really liked it here.

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                        • #13
                          Creates aren't taking over.. Don't be silly. They aren't good enough to dominate.

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                          • #14
                            The Price for creates will be 6k with the DD Fee

                            By having the creates with their current limitation they do not compete vs bred horses on the average . There are only 3 creates in the top 20 in earnings this season .

                            would you rather have 2 creates or 1 bred horse from your own stock .

                            Breeding is what makes the site special . I completely agree . The site made 8k per breed vs 5k per creates . Its better for the site for stable to breed then buy creates .

                            Creates are for Trainers to develop their own bloodline not compete vs bred horses . A couple out of 100 can compete vs the top horses and those creates are special .

                            Creates also give us a way to help new trainers without getting involved in the sites breeders .

                            Thanks and I hope you take advantage of some of the breeding discounts we have to start the season . Good Luck

                            Admin.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Greeko Holdem View Post
                              Creates aren't taking over.. Don't be silly. They aren't good enough to dominate.
                              What are you talking about Greeko, last night there was 9 Breeder Cup races, there was 11 Creates entered in those and they manage to win three of the nine Cups one belonging to you, am I still being silly? Its another slap in the face when Creates can even run in a BREEDER CUP race, the race is OR was made for bred horses and added some class to this site and our stables, now the cup is no more then a dam joke!

                              Lone, you said at the top of this post creates would cost 5k with added DD, now you say 6K with added DD, will it keep changing as the season goes on? You said: Creates with their current limitations do not compete vs bred horses on the average.

                              Are you kidding me? If there are limitations its on bred horses not creates. Bred horses cost more they have to pay 3K DD fees, they don't have there own class of races to run like creates do, in order to compete they need a good trainer to match them up with proven sires and correct distances, takes time and a pile of homework.

                              If your talking about creates ability to win over bred horses, i think a good look at stake winners in the last couple seasons will prove creates can compete just fine. I blame it on all of us for complaining over and over that creates were a waste of money because most got shot without a chance to race, so the site slowly raised the bar and now they have surpass what they where intended for.

                              Free DD fees are a big mistake and 3K is to high for bred horses.

                              i wanted to reply yesterday but got locked out of the site again, still working on a fix for that I hope. I'm going to go breed a couple horses while the discount is still on, they won't be DD bred like all my other's are but there should be a few races out there for them,,,,

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