Age Change Training Question

[Winning Ways]

Hello,would just like some feedback,if you train your horses with the 2lb weight rise advised in the help sections ie 118-120 fillies and 120-122 for colts and the horses were running about the same times as they were at 2yrs or slightly worse times,would members view this as a good age change??
Members views most welcome.
Andy.

[Extreme Studs]

My view is that it aint a great age change you are looking for improvement as they get older to complete with younger horses in open races they may still be able to complete in claimers against there own age providing that the horses they are racing agaist are of similar ability.

i would test distances and different jockey instructions to gauge whether they could complete but like most horses you wont really know until you race it at least once if you believe the horse is worth it .

I could be wrong and im sure there will be more experienced trainers that would have more expertise in this area that will give you a better insight

[Winning420]

You are looking for improvement but unfortunately the game isn't designed that way so you very rarely see any improvement that will make the horse better. But the good thing is the majority of the horses don't improve. So you might as well race them against there age group and see if they can still win.

[Tockyocky Racing]

I tried not responding to this thread because some people say my writings are intimidating but I'm gonna do it anyway. I hope people read this and truly pay attention and let it sink in. First the answer to the original question is quite simple. It's actually not even an answer its just fact and understand it for what it is.

Age change and training with added weight really means nothing at all...fact. Regardless of how good or bad the horse performed compared to how the horse trained the run times or (range based on meters)will not change at all. if the horse ran 1.08.90 at 2yo and 120 lbs it will run 1.08.90 at 3yo and 122 lbs and so on with each change in age and weight. This is Fact. So please when trying to figure out age change please do not even consider the training times.

The track workout times do not use all of the inputs that a race does. In fact...they do not change at all. Meters control the floor and the ceiling of the times. When you have a stakes hopeful horse as 2yo that runs great work times and is a 3k claimer on the track it will turn 3Yo and run the same great works and be whatever it ends up being as 3yo on the track.

There are 2 ways to help look at age change. 1. Put the horse on the workout track with other horses. When you train your horse by itself there are very few factors impacting the numbers. It's lane #1, It has ideal jock, runs with out resistance, drag or draft etc etc etc. When you work a horse out with other horses some of these other factors come into play and make an impact. 2. Race the horse. There is without a doubt a change in every horse with age...sometimes the difference is minimal and sometimes much larger. This change happens 2 to 3 and 3 to 4.

Please let this sink in because it seems everyone seems to just ignore this. It is not a rule to train your 2yo Colt at 120 pounds...its just a standard practice to gauge an ability.

Your horse may train at 120 pounds but might have a different ideal race weight.
Your Jockey may train with 120 pounds but might have a different ideal race weight.
Have you looked at the numbers from races with the same horse but different weights like allowances or wfa's?

There have been season after seasons of people talking about training performance vs racing performance ignoring simple aspects of the game. Somehow you think training a horse alone at a weight with an ideal jock is the determining factor of what a horse should be on race day. There are so many flaws with this that it makes my head hurt.

Now let's talk racing. The ideal race age and what the racing platform was built for is 3yo and 4yo....NOT 2YO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What you are looking for are the horses that can run as 3yo. Once a horse makes it as a 3yo more times than not it will continue to race on the same level for quite some time. There are also no "fresh" 3yo's that will magically appear and outclass the class. FACTS

If every horse dies off after 3 races as many or some say than how do we have stakes winners at 3yo and 4yo. The complaints of all horses die after a couple races does not hold water. Do they come back to a normal steady level? Yes. DO these same horses have a chance of a negative or positive age change? Yes. Is it possible that a 2yo stakes hopeful from training that flops on the track and is gelded would have matched its training potential as a 3yo? Yes. Is it possible that a stakes winning 2yo becomes a claiming 3yo? Yes.

Most trainers just geld a 2yo and chalk it up as a loss. That's the easy way. Truth is you will never know what could of been with the horse because you live and die by this belief in the standard training weight ignoring any other factor in the game. It become such the norm that its like a incurable disease.

2Yo racing is a mosh pit with old and young 2yo's which makes it difficult to take inventory of what you have in the stable. All of the is eliminated at 3Yo and up. Every single stable here should be preparing their stable for 3yo and up. Period end of story. Thats why it was so important to stop the breeding of 3YO's. It was detrimental to this community.


Its long winded but hope this helps.