What am I missing?

[And More Racing Stable]

I thought there was no "rake" coming out of the regular races. Why do these purses not equal the number of entries times the entry fee?

05-26-2019	19:15	05-25-2019 19:15	Turf CAL	3	7f	Turf fm	D-Division 2yos	8(0)	20000 + 5000(BC)
Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 2 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 3500
	05-26-2019	19:40	05-25-2019 19:40	Dirt BEL	8	1 1/8m	Dirt fst	Optional Claiming NW3	8(1)	24500 + 5000(BC)
Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, Claiming price 17500, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 3 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 4200

[Cold Dog Soup]

Paul
We are headed towards all fixed purses. I didnt look but assume that's what's going on here. So even if there are only 4 entries the purse will be the same. as 8 entries. Sometimes to the stables benefit. Others not so much but still a decent purse. More inline with how real horse racing works. Yes one could argue its a back door rake but it also allows Bob to add more funds to some of the bigger races that end up with $300 or $400 purses. There will be some races that would be the equivolent of the old method with several hundred dollars added so hopefully in the end it will even out. I think the breeders cup races at the end of the season is looking like $1400 in guaranteed purses when it would have been only 500 or so. .

[South Jersey Stables]

Will the % hit to cancelling a nomination get removed? I know we want it to be more like real life, but in real life you aren't putting up 20% of a purse as an entry fee for a race. I could see this leading to people not entering horses where they certainly could run due to horses already entered. And there should be an ability to scratch a horse with no penalty if the field gets too large and you entered early.

This will lead to a whole new batch of strategies based on things like entering early with multiple horses to possibly ward off other entries by skewing the risk/reward with entry fee relative to possible earning. especially if it's a series race.

Maybe I'm wrong on this and I'm a bit short-sighted.

[South Jersey Stables]

Fixed purses across the board are certainly like "real" racing, but in real racing it's not the owners that are paying for the purse with large nomination fees

[Nut Brown Racing]

Fixed purses across the board are certainly like "real" racing, but in real racing it's not the owners that are paying for the purse with large nomination fees

As Mike well knows, it is the owners that get paid to run in the smaller races. A "starting fee" is paid to each horse, I think it is about $400 here. The exception are the "stakes" races, so called because the owner has to put up a stake.

[Greeko Holdem]

When races fill at high purses. We definatley need a start refund.

[Midwest Racing]

I like the idea of fixed purse's. I'd also consider a first come first serve type approach on nominations on 3y and up racing . This will encourage trainers to enter early , it works.

But along with that I'd like to 2nd South Jersey on the scratch fee. I've always hated that and this is only site I know that does it . it should be free to scratch up untill a day out or maybe 2 at which time the fee would be more appropriate I guess.

jmo

[Greeko Holdem]

Charging a fee to scratch your horse should remain in place.

We dont have also eligible horses here. Stables can manipulate the outlook of the race to their advantage if they can enter as many as they can and withdraw right before closing time.

Unless admin wants to max entries to 3 for every stable.

[And More Racing Stable]

Some good thoughts here that I think need to be thought out before such implementation. As it is now it’s not consistent..some races are fixed purses and some aren’t. I understand that it generates money to apply to bigger races but it’s actually a detriment to those stables who have decent stock but not the caliber to run in stakes races.

I applaud the effort to create large purses for some races but you can’t forget the middle class of the community in the process.

[Two Diamond Farm]

Charging a fee to scratch your horse should remain in place.

We dont have also eligible horses here. Stables can manipulate the outlook of the race to their advantage if they can enter as many as they can and withdraw right before closing time.

Unless admin wants to max entries to 3 for every stable.

lol , that would keep pancho from having 4 , 5 horses in a race . i agree with keeping a fee to scratch a horse

[Administrator]

I haven't had a chance to really read all of this and put together a proper response as I have been quite busy. However, the fixed purses allow you to race at a guaranteed amount and in most cases based on average entry field size. In some cases the site takes a loss. Go back and look at how many races I have adjusted the purse to match the entry fee or come close to it minus some minor details. I believe the Golden Shoe was Guaranteed $400 without any entries and finished at $470 ish which was adjusted by me.

Look below at the races referenced initially...see the purses

05/26/2019	19:15	05/25/2019 19:15	3	Calder DD	7f	Turf fm	D-Division 2yos
Purse 28000 +5000(BC) Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 2 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 3500

Race is Open. Number of entries: 8

05/26/2019	19:40	05/25/2019 19:40	8	Belmont DD	1 1/8m	Dirt fst	Optional Claiming NW3
Purse 40000 +5000(BC) Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, Claiming price 17500, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 3 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 4200

Race is Open. Number of entries: 10


These updates usually happen 24 hours before race goes off and I am always looking to provide the best return for you all. I have no preference on who wins and how much as long as the gap is closed between what I put up and what the stables put up. I also turn my head and look the other way when the site is taking a loss on a race because I am looking at the bigger picture. As I improve programming I will be able to have much of this automated. There is no rake. You race for a purse and when the field exceeds the break even point I intend to make sure the purse is proper. Will it be 100%...no. Will it be 100% the other way when the site is getting beat...no. To be very clear...a fixed purse does not have to match entries. A build your own purse starting at zero will match entries.

[And More Racing Stable]

Paul
We are headed towards all fixed purses. I didnt look but assume that's what's going on here. So even if there are only 4 entries the purse will be the same. as 8 entries. Sometimes to the stables benefit. Others not so much but still a decent purse. More inline with how real horse racing works. Yes one could argue its a back door rake but it also allows Bob to add more funds to some of the bigger races that end up with $300 or $400 purses. There will be some races that would be the equivolent of the old method with several hundred dollars added so hopefully in the end it will even out. I think the breeders cup races at the end of the season is looking like $1400 in guaranteed purses when it would have been only 500 or so. .

I'm going to disagree with this statement about "still a decent purse". I've been looking back at the results of these races and the horse that finishes second barely breaks even and the third place finisher loses money even if it's a full or almost full field. I see no point in entering these races and AMRS will avoid them. If the whole card eventually goes this way it will be a disaster.

[And More Racing Stable]

I haven't had a chance to really read all of this and put together a proper response as I have been quite busy. However, the fixed purses allow you to race at a guaranteed amount and in most cases based on average entry field size. In some cases the site takes a loss. Go back and look at how many races I have adjusted the purse to match the entry fee or come close to it minus some minor details. I believe the Golden Shoe was Guaranteed $400 without any entries and finished at $470 ish which was adjusted by me.

Look below at the races referenced initially...see the purses

05/26/2019	19:15	05/25/2019 19:15	3	Calder DD	7f	Turf fm	D-Division 2yos
Purse 28000 +5000(BC) Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 2 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 3500

Race is Open. Number of entries: 8

05/26/2019	19:40	05/25/2019 19:40	8	Belmont DD	1 1/8m	Dirt fst	Optional Claiming NW3
Purse 40000 +5000(BC) Starting Purse 5000 bonus credits, Claiming price 17500, 2yo Colts and Fillies that have never won 3 races, Wt colts 120lbs, fillies 118lbs, entry fee 4200

Race is Open. Number of entries: 10


These updates usually happen 24 hours before race goes off and I am always looking to provide the best return for you all. I have no preference on who wins and how much as long as the gap is closed between what I put up and what the stables put up. I also turn my head and look the other way when the site is taking a loss on a race because I am looking at the bigger picture. As I improve programming I will be able to have much of this automated. There is no rake. You race for a purse and when the field exceeds the break even point I intend to make sure the purse is proper. Will it be 100%...no. Will it be 100% the other way when the site is getting beat...no. To be very clear...a fixed purse does not have to match entries. A build your own purse starting at zero will match entries.

Don't get so hung up on semantics Bob. Whether it's called a rake or a take or an overage that isn't added to the purse doesn't matter. The point is several of these races run for 28%-34% less than they would have prior to the guaranteed purses and I'm not talking about races like the Golden Shoe but about regular allowance type races. If you run 3rd in a full field and still lose money that's not right. Look at the results. Even if you are going to adjust some that still means others won't be adjusted and we have no idea which ones you will adjust before we enter.

[Administrator]

What about the ones that are the opposite that go off with a purse higher than whats entered? It's not a one way street here! Again...a fixed purse is a guaranteed purse for at least that amount.

I'll look through the card but I know the fixed purse amounts are initially set up with the average entry amount. Look we lowered breeding fees by 25.5% we lowered the cost additionally in huge amounts by implementing the Offspring Royalty fee. It cost $5 now instead of like $11 before shoes and vet and DD fee plus breed fees to sires and mares etc. Thats like $15 all in vs. $8 all said and done per horse thats 47% less to breed on average. We have increased bonus credits in races. We have races in all types that are in the stable's favor. We have over 3K in new added money etc etc and we are just getting started. We put the focus back on quality racing and the focus on breeding protecting brood stock of members over created horses purchased cheap to make everything else meaningless all to which adds value. We removed the entry fee rake on all members and applied the jockey fee to only the horses winning part of the purse sparing losing horses / stables insult to injury. This adds up greatly. I have been working for days on making improvements to the code of "morning glory" workouts and 1st race boosts as well as the decline of a horse from stakes to claimers in some cases. I need you all to do your thing and race and have fun while I continue to build the best product available.

For that reason....I'll take a look at past races because I care and want a happy customer base. However I make no promises regarding fixed purses at the moment but will certainly continue to make sure they are not drastically off balanced manually as I can. Its a guaranteed purse that can be higher.

Your point and concern is well taken and noted! I respect that.

[Administrator]

I'm going to disagree with this statement about "still a decent purse". I've been looking back at the results of these races and the horse that finishes second barely breaks even and the third place finisher loses money even if it's a full or almost full field. I see no point in entering these races and AMRS will avoid them. If the whole card eventually goes this way it will be a disaster.

This is not entirely the case.

With fixed purse racing -

4 Horse Field - 3rd place finisher receives 6% more than non fixed purse races
5 Horse Field - 3rd place finisher receives 1% more than a non fixed purse
6 Horse Field - 3rd place finisher is 4% less than non fixed purses (Money to 4th place)
7 horses or higher in a non fixed purse pays exactly the same as a 4 horse field of a fixed purse race. Clearly the payout for fixed purses in this specific situation favors fixed purses.

In the site average filed size of 5 horses the 3rd place finisher receives 1% more of purse in fixed purse races than non fixed purse races. So the better we make fixed purses the better the payoff. It's not perfect at the moment but we make progress every day.

Additionally - In fixed purse races we pay out the 4th place finisher in smaller races where they would not be paid in non fixed races. I'm sure the 4th place finisher like some entry fee recovery. You don't see as many because most fixed purses race with 5 horses in the field as a minimum.

We did add 5% to the winning horse in fixed purse races.

So we have improved the percentages all around for balance and I will look at the 3rd place finisher and % in races greater than 5 entries.