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  • #16
    Just keep in mind that workout times are slower because they are 1yo's. I could show you side by side comparisons of the same horse at 1yo and 2 yo...I've done the research. Thats for works but I don't race horses so I can't share that data.

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    • #17
      unfortunately I must agree that they are a waste of time. I use to breed 10 or so when they were first introduced, I would swear off of them after the season would start and then do it again next season mostly trying to get eliminator runners and they were all garbage I never had a single one that made a profit. I understand why they were introduced they just sucked IMO.

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      • #18
        OK...I'm not trying to sell anyone on yearlings. Frankly I don't care if you do or not. In fact it's probably better for me if you don't but I do want the record to be straight. I still contend you are all talking about yearlings you bred several seasons ago and I'm only talking about last season when changes were made.

        I went back and looked...I bred 6 yearlings last season. 2 are retired and 4 are still running.

        Hometown Touchdown - colt is still a maiden but has 21,920 earnings in only 4 starts - 3 ITM
        Best yearling work
        6.0f 22.27 45.18 1:09.06
        2yo work
        6.0f 22.13 44.94 1:08.84
        Miss Evolution - 58,360 earnings in 10 starts - 7 ITM
        Best yearling work
        1 1/8m 46.90 1:11.66 1:49.79
        2yo work
        1 1/8m 47.18 1:11.88 1:49.51

        Orbit The Moon - 139,100 earnings in 9 starts - currently 6th in BC Juvenile Classic F G1 points
        Best yearling work
        1 1/8m 46.81 1:11.51 1:49.94
        2yo work
        1 1/8m 46.96 1:11.60 1:49.46

        Twilight Saga - 100,143 earnings in 11 starts - currently only 4 points out of top 10 in BC Juvenile Sprint G2 points
        Best yearling work
        5.0f 22.17 44.82 57.91
        2yo work
        5.0f 21.98 44.52 57.63

        As you can see every one of them improved at 2yo and all are paying their way.
        4 of 6 bred running and making money...maybe these kind of results aren't good enough for you but I'm OK with them.

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        • #19
          Thanks for the validation AMR

          The percent chance of landing a good 1yo runner is no different than 2yo. I have no reason to mislead and I also am not doing a sales push. Old practice here by management may have been to drive revenue with 1yo's but I think I have shown over the last 2 months that I don't drive quick cash with no substance. At some point soon I will post what I believe to be the baseline numbers for 1yo's in comparison to 2yo's. If 1yo's are bred or not doesn't really matter to me at this point in time but I will be watching the 1yo's and how they race at 2yo to continue to improve the product.

          Everyone has their opinion based on their own experience and that is all well and good. I appreciate all feedback

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          • #20
            I have found past 2 season especially last, yearlings have improved and can compete.
            You still have to be careful with the morning glories and fast than fast geldings, just like the 2yos.

            Basically, i've found training new season can improve with some variations, 0.2 (sprints), 0,4 (1m 1 1/8), 0.75 (1 3/8 and 1 1/2) with lower gains at sprint and higher gain at route, so it's a percent thing. Also there don't seem (to me anyway) a hard formula. some horses do better.

            For the OTT, I would scrap it. I had waste my time getting what I believe to be better numbers and horses don't live up. I think they do better the way they are born. or maybe I just bad at OTT, lol.

            Still, I can respect opinions from trainer burn by 1yos.
            ie: my horse Really Smart (not world beater) was yearling and won route champ as 2yo.

            One thing to remember with the in season 2yos is the first start effect. most yearlings would likely put in a couple of starts before facing fresher horses. It happens to 2yos the same.

            Bring on the Eliminator.
            If series starts day 3 of new season, trainers can still breed day 1 and enter later that day before race closes.
            I think some of both 1yos and 2yos is not a bad way to go...then we will see the effect.

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            • #21
              I agree 100% Chris. There is no hard and fast formula that will tell you that if a horse works "X" fast they will be "X" quality. I think that's the misconception of some that causes frustration when their fast worker isn't a superstar. I've had horses who work 1:08.70 or faster who are claimers and some who can't crack 1:09 that have won stakes races. Splits, consistency and versatility are more important in determining class and quality than time alone...IMO. You notice above that 2 of the "best works" I listed for horses were at 1-1/8M not 6f. I only judge to a certain point based on 6f works. One of those horses works pretty well at 6f but the other is all out to run 1:09.02 yet she's a stakes winner because she improves exponentially at a mile plus.

              I'm still on the fence about OTT. It's very time consuming for what might be very little improvement or maybe not. Then again, I'm not sure I have used it in the most effective manner and if it stays this season I have some ideas to use it a little differently and see what I think then.

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              • #22
                thing is yearlings do nothing but tie up funds. funds that could be used to enter horses . i just don't see the point of having them to he honest.
                Midwest Racing

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                • #23
                  site was never designed for yearlings. its just a money grab for site and waste of money for trainers. always was and always will be. they were brought into existence as an additional revenue stream, which is understandable, but the program not designed for it that's why the majority of them don't live up to anything. IMO

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Winning420 View Post
                    site was never designed for yearlings. its just a money grab for site and waste of money for trainers. always was and always will be. they were brought into existence as an additional revenue stream, which is understandable, but the program not designed for it that's why the majority of them don't live up to anything. IMO
                    This is incorrect. I don't know the circumstances behind the rollout of yearlings many years ago but I can certainly tell you that it is in the programming. It is also in the programming and clearly stated that 1yo's were not intended to race and therefor are assessed a penalty during any race at 1yo. Everything else is exactly the same. This can't even be argued!

                    With a short 4 month season it seems practical to me to offer yearlings 15 days before the season starts. Don't want them don't breed them but they will be available for those that do. Few success stories already on this thread including a Champ Ride.
                    Last edited by Administrator; 07-20-2019, 11:41 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Midwest Racing View Post
                      thing is yearlings do nothing but tie up funds. funds that could be used to enter horses . i just don't see the point of having them to he honest.
                      For the record...my argument has not been about whether yearlings are worth breeding or not but whether yearling breds are able to compete with 2yo breds and they most certainly can.

                      This however is a statement that I will agree with for this reason...with the eliminator not starting until 7 days into the season there is plenty of time to breed and train 2yo's to race in it. Without any significant 2yo races beginning on day 1 of a new season there really is no compelling reason to breed yearlings unless someone just likes playing with them and OTT.

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                      • #26
                        they make good auction bate . I mean if there wasn't unlimited training on unraced horses I'd be more gung ho I guess
                        Midwest Racing

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                        • #27
                          and I'm not saying stop unlimited at all just stating fact imo that you don't need yearlings. if you needed the time to figure them out before the race yeah ok but you don't you can get all the 2s you want day 1 so what possible advantage to yearlings or am I missing something?
                          Midwest Racing

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Midwest Racing View Post
                            and I'm not saying stop unlimited at all just stating fact imo that you don't need yearlings. if you needed the time to figure them out before the race yeah ok but you don't you can get all the 2s you want day 1 so what possible advantage to yearlings or am I missing something?
                            The point of unlimited training eliminating the NEED for yearlings is something I agree with. You can now breed in the morning of day one and have a full trained and properly placed stable of 2 yos for day 2 afternoon and night races.

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