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Gelding 1 year olds

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  • #16
    I think there needs to be a deeper discussion on these workout times because I see a lot of people being confused about workout times and potential vs expectations and age change.
    Tockyocky Racing
    From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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    • #17
      ok you two both of you are good players and look at the game a little different but over all both have valid points , my issue with yearling is a little different had muti 1:08.75 and under which could not run on track this piss the shit out of me and made yearlings something of a the past (at least for me) to many morning glory type both breed and create, Lone thinks he has fixed the issue but i think NOT... Also Talking about it has not helped ... Me and 3 to 4 other ex-players believe that its a waste of energy to breed creates ,As there is no where to race them unless it a big one CREATE races are a waste!!!! so breeding them to be breeders is not feasible for all players and Mostly if you get an awesome yearling it's only awesome for 3/5 races then it takes a shit!! as horses on this site never gain value!!! THIS COULD BE A GREAT GAME , BUT in my opinion its Backwards!!! But there to be discussed an other time !!!!

      John
      SPARTANS! What is YOUR profession?


      WAR! WAR! WAR!

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      • #18
        ok John let's see if I can help you with info I have gathered.

        Firstly, the Muti (wish Lone would correct the spelling to Multi, it creates havoc with my Grammar Nazi tendencies). I use this occasionally with new 2yo's as well as yearlings and have observed the following. It favors the horse drawn pole. He/She will run much better than its individual works indicate. To combat this, I shuffle the horses into different gates and see how they respond with the same instruction then vary the instructions to how I would set them in a race i.e. speedsters on steady or relax inside, jd/push outside. You will have to experiment with this but you can glean good info from their 2f splits in individual works. The Muti is much closer to race times than indiv. works are, so check against actual race results for the same age horses and you will see that 1:08.75 would only win a low claimer. The Jetsons offspring were my best yearlings and they were Muti working in the1:08.40s.The Muti works also showed that Spacely was the weakest of the three with Cogswell the best even though their indiv. workout times were reversed. Still a work in progress and hopefully I will have more info to glean from. Chris and Nb obviously did a lot more work with the OTT than I did and I will spend more time looking at that aspect at the end of the season.

        Secondly, the morning glories.... From the old Help Page, it stated that Stamina of the horse was its ability to be ready for its next race. Until recently I thought this meant how quickly the meters returned to racing levels, now my thinking is that it refers to how long a horse must rest before running at its optimum again and for how long it can keep the racing fitness levels going.. There are the rare horses that can run at their best day in, day out but there are a lot of horses that need x amount of days rest between races. This would be up to the stables to work out. I have only tested one horse so far. He broke the track record at his first start, then held form (not all wins) for another 5 starts then his form dropped off as I entered him in multiple Champ races. I rested him 15 days before the Consolation Final which he won. He has had another 3 starts without a long rest where I tested him with different instructions/distances. He may need more than 15 days rest, don't know yet. Look at each race of each horse that you have and ask yourself, "Why did this horse lose?" What changes can I make to get a better result?.

        I think we have got to stop blaming Lone for it, because we are all in the same boat. If changes are made, then I like others will adjust my stable accordingly to try to obtain my best results. Again not Lone's fault if other stables improve if I do not. Marketing and Infrastructure should be Lone's primary concern. The program is complex and I hastily admit I don't know everything from my 14 real year's experience and as Toc has stated even knowing how the concept works from the other side, it is the cards you are dealt and how you play them that counts. However I will admit to looking over people's shoulders at times to help my quest.

        Norm

        "There's a fine line between winning and losing... it's called The Finish Line"

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        • #19
          Thank you Norm for your insight, But this game has been changing every month , (shoes socks, fees, no fees ,we voted on no yearling we still have yearlings,) Guess your right not Lone"s fault , or Maybe this game is to hard for me to understand!! really dont have time to go thru judging every horses rest tendencies and how each instruction works at different posts ,Finally asking myself why the horse lost is making me over think this game!!! i RL i can see this but here with Plastic Horses i cant !!
          SPARTANS! What is YOUR profession?


          WAR! WAR! WAR!

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          • #20
            I see these post and they are very good but imo they give this site to much credit for being a complicated system. I just don't buy it. IMO the system is working just how it was designed. The horses are designed to fall off to increase spending at the site. The gate is the overwhelming determining factor in almost every race. I think people have mythed more things into this game then it is programmed to be. I have been racing here for 10 years almost and it has never changed through all the changes that have been made it is still the same designed game it was in the beginning when I started. You can add cosmetic stuff to give the illusion of the trainer having more input but hasn't changed anything. That being said I still like playing and will be around a while but I think people need stop giving more credit than its due. Its a computer program not an AI type program that continues to learn and adjust and change but a set program with set structure and programming. the numbers are the numbers. The fluff changes have made no change to that. what other game do you know that says oh man yours work like a champ or a dud but you don't know til you race. That is just programmed spending put into the game.The works are good but you don't know until you race. The works suck but the horse could still be good so you better race it and see. you see where I am going with that? My 2 cents

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            • #21
              Damn Steve i can't agree with you more!! (it's just a game)!!
              SPARTANS! What is YOUR profession?


              WAR! WAR! WAR!

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              • #22
                “What other game do you know that says oh man yours works like a champ or a dud but you don’t know til you race”

                Real life racing is this way. Many $5000 claimers work as fast or faster than many stakes horses. If you don’t believe that go look at track works and compare the different classes of the fast working horses.

                “IMO they give this site too much credit for being a complicated system”

                if you really believe this then you haven’t taken the time or effort to learn the nuances of the game. There is a lot of influence trainers can use to improve their stats, ROI, etc. if it were a game of simple numbers then some horses would simply win every race and if it were totally random then everyone’s stats would be nearly identical.

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                • #23
                  i agree with that we need to have separation between horses so that we don't run into identical horses, But i am not talking about this , i am very concerned with Values!! . Breeding horses that have short life spans is dangerous to the heath of the site, It creates a breeding money pit which de-values our stables to where there is no Auctions, Buyers,Sellers and New Players!!! Auction since i joined here are a joke.. very low participation,, Buyers and Sellers are also very low as participants ...Owners are selling less due to horse not going at good value,,, Buyers want horses cheap knowing they might not have many more races in them ( a catch 22)!!! New players have not come in Imo due to no advertisement and no set help to offer by the site Like a (mentor program) if a new player deposit $100 here he will never recoup any money to re invest into the game to continue playing ( most new people get turn off early into the game) Site needs to create a noobie FREE track so new players can learn the game and stick around longer!!! i know this was done early on on this site and failed but that was then , this time it may generate more people to stay around longer.....

                  Just more of my thinking hope a haven't bored anyone thanks john
                  Last edited by Aloya; 01-09-2019, 06:14 PM.
                  SPARTANS! What is YOUR profession?


                  WAR! WAR! WAR!

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                  • #24
                    The gates aren't the most important factor unless its 5F. I truly believe I can win a race from any gate....and I do. I have the horse to do it and my strategy works more than it doesnt. The only time the skill I believe I have becomes neutralized a bit is with 5F and 4F for different reasons. I think u guys should understand that when you enter a 5F race the set up is completely different than most other races.

                    Norm is spot on as usual. Our tendency is to race...train to fit and race again without ever considering the well being of the pixel horse . As far as the morning glories please take a step back. You train a new horse and it 1.08.95 at 6F. Well guess what...if that horse truly ran its works as u guys say you wish it did and get so frustrated with it would lose most races. 1.08.95 will not win many 6F races. Sometimes i think i'm in my own bubble on this topic. I constantly see posts about horses not running their works. what if your horse did run the 1.08.95...did it run in a race that the winner ran a 1.08.29? All of these horses have a range they can run based on many factors...many. I posted this elsewhere...training uses a few of the factors that are used in a race while racing uses many factors. It's the reason some horses run 1.08.20 in a race but train 1.08.90 or run 1.09.10 in a race but train 1.08.95. What about the horse that trained 1.09.10 but cleans up high claimers and winning 6F at 1.08.75.

                    This site is not designed to kill off horses to create more revenue...thats just completely way off! The fact of the matter that many of you cant seem to grasp even if it smacked you backhanded in the face is that you base this entire game on 2yo racing and success which is beyond flawed. Do horses run fresh...yes. Do some drop off...yes. Do they cycle...yes. Again your basing ur opinions off of the immediate reaction to a result of a 2yo race. Weights for 3yo and 4yo need to be corrected and the site and the community need to focus on 3yo racing. There can be value here. I believe there is nearly $3,000 up for grabs today and this is how the card should be every day. Lets not hack the card up because qualifiers start. Clearly we want to race for good purses and racing should not be defined by qualifiers. Racing should be about profitability meaning proper placement and career progression. Use the maidens and divisions and if we all understood that not every horse is a champ then these races would stay filled.

                    Its amazing to me at this point what people don't know about racing here. I wish I could find some new stables that I could teach and they can run and produce so they can support my beliefs. Yall must think I spend money breeding and just hit click click click and enter a race and magically win.

                    I have 3yo's running better now than at 2yo and i have 3yo's running worse than at 2yo. Build a proper stable for the card and don't look at everything as a failure,

                    For those that are playing on other sites and this one....the race purses today on this site far exceed the race purses on the other sites available. The ownership of this site is also more involved than any other site. Forums are always dominated by negative misleading posts rather than success stories. Unlike most cases...bad publicity is not good publicity here.
                    Last edited by Tockyocky Racing; 01-09-2019, 06:23 PM.
                    Tockyocky Racing
                    From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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                    • #25
                      John

                      Value is determined by supply. It's basic economics. Allowing horses to breed at 3yo and allowing 50 breeds from that horse direct result in devaluing the product. IMO the site needs a serious hard correction on breeding and availability. Stables always want more breeds from a good horse and the site should never cave to that pressure. Any long time stable has more retired horses and breeds available than they will ever need or ever use. It's absolutely ridiculous and bad business.

                      Nothing should breed at 3yo because 3yo is the main racing age and its not utilized. Instead we churn and burn and act like 2yo's are the be all to the place when in fact its the exact opposite. Limiting breeds increases value of the breeds available and also limits the amount of slop that is bred. Garbage in garbage out.

                      Furthermore never again should a horse be un-retired for breeding.

                      Apples to apples stakes winning horses will produce more productive foals than Claiming types. 20 breeds to 20 breeds this will be shown to be accurate.

                      Back to breeding and value. The game should not be set up that once i have a large stable and a regular supply of breeders that I never need to use a public breeder. That is when you know that the breeding platform is broken! Even someone like myself should feel the need and see the value in using breeds from others and determining if the price for the breed makes sense. If 90% of us have 1000 breeds available in our own stable it makes little sense to pay someone else. if it was up to me i would immediatley cut all breeds by 50%...if peopel don't like it and leave so be it but I know moving forward and building back that its being done the right way long term for the betterment of the site and community increasing value and interest.
                      Last edited by Tockyocky Racing; 01-09-2019, 06:29 PM.
                      Tockyocky Racing
                      From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        For those that are playing on other sites and this one....the race purses today on this site far exceed the race purses on the other sites available. The ownership of this site is also more involved than any other site. Forums are always dominated by negative misleading posts rather than success stories. Unlike most cases...bad publicity is not good publicity here.


                        Sorry about the negativity!! But misleading post i don't' agree, we voted on NO yearling and Lone keeps running them down our throats!! and success stories Well lets ask the 30+ stables that have quit , Toc Bro iam seeing no value here!!! 1k races , Wtf K-mart blue light specials , this is not negativity it's facts . no disrespect to you as i believe you and Norm have mastered this game ..
                        SPARTANS! What is YOUR profession?


                        WAR! WAR! WAR!

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                        • #27
                          John I could care less about yearlings also but there needs to be breeding available before the race season actually starts or the 2yo season would be completely dead. I however would ban any type of 1yo racing because the game crosses the line on mimicking real horse racing and becoming a fantasy. I haven't seen a 1yo race in real life. Maybe i'm wrong. You have valid concerns on race entry amounts and purses...i'm not sure what happened the purse structure as i remember running horses in 120K claiming purses alone.

                          Clearly not all these horses are the same so it's not a click and play site.

                          1k races are garbage and they shouldn't be included in stable standings. They however are probably useful to new members or members who love to participate but have no budget.
                          Tockyocky Racing
                          From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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                          • #28
                            Also guys...i'm a really chill person but my posts and text messages can come off very manner of fact and blunt. I apologize for that but please don't make that a reason to not interact with me on the forums. Speak you mind and don't be shy about it. You don't have to be a top stable to speak and I also think the stables that claim they are the best or or had PAST success that don't post on the forums do the community wrong by the silence.
                            Tockyocky Racing
                            From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Aloya View Post
                              For those that are playing on other sites and this one....the race purses today on this site far exceed the race purses on the other sites available. The ownership of this site is also more involved than any other site. Forums are always dominated by negative misleading posts rather than success stories. Unlike most cases...bad publicity is not good publicity here.


                              Sorry about the negativity!! But misleading post i don't' agree, we voted on NO yearling and Lone keeps running them down our throats!! and success stories Well lets ask the 30+ stables that have quit , Toc Bro iam seeing no value here!!! 1k races , Wtf K-mart blue light specials , this is not negativity it's facts . no disrespect to you as i believe you and Norm have mastered this game ..
                              the part about race purses isn’t exactly true (at least at the moment ) but who knows it may change sometime in the future. i know a few sites where the purses are bigger , & yes lone is very involved with dd ( as well as he should ..... he owns it ). I throw a horse in a race every now & then , maybe I should take a break from “my artwork” for awhile & pay more attention to my dd barn .glad to see orb is still here at dd(always liked reading his posts).
                              Last edited by Two Diamond Farm; 01-12-2019, 03:16 PM.

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                              • #30
                                With all due respect.......The purses are not bigger elsewhere. I have a stable on most of them. I'm not counting rare high stakes and G1 races. The money taken on the card this week blew away the total money on the top 3 comparable sites. With 20% of the stables they have.

                                I have 4 times the earnings of the highest and best Stable owner on the most populated virtual horse racing site. Chrisman has 2 times the earnings and Trunoble 1.5 times and Eddie 1 for 1

                                Clearly this is the best site for what we actually play for....MONEY! We do it with far less.



                                Tockyocky Racing
                                From the gate to the wire...stable on FIRE

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