Race Or Retire

[Winner Circle Ranch]

I've been a few weeks trying to find a race for a 4Y Colt with equal weight but the only Div race that offers this in A div, Why? Tried to find an allowance race that might give me a drop in weight but there is not ONE allowance race for a 4F 4Y colt. So I looked for a claimer for 4Y and found they all have to run against 2 or 3Y olds. The only choice I have for this horse and other 4Y like it, is to end its career short and retire them. I wait a whole season for him to turn 4 because I'm told his offspring will have a longer life span as a racer only to find there are no fair races for these horses. I'm getting confused on how to run my stable. Please let me know if there are any 4Y races in the future that will be set up like the A Divisions are. Thank You in advance.

[Aragon Stables]

4F races are notoriously difficult to get to go off, people tend to shy away from them possibly because of the 'best horse wins' nature of them that a good trainer can't overcome with instructions etc that they can at other distances.

While you've been waiting have you been training it in the current season? Does it get 5F? They seem to go off with much greater regularity. Also, while the weight adjustments have been good for keeping older horses in the game, it's just a little bonus. You can still run them against younger horses. Do the works look ok carrying 122/124? If they look ok I'm sure you can find a spot for it against younger competition, possibly just down a rung or 2 from same age races.

I'm sure the races are carded in part based on which ones are popular and fill, that could potentially be why 4F are hard to come by as they rarely do. I also have a few 4F specialists sitting around and have raced them in 3YO+ races so far. The 4YO is only 1lb to the disadvantage there.

Good luck on the track

[Winner Circle Ranch]

Aragon, you might have got distracted from what my question was when I used my 4F 4Y as my example of NOT having equal weight races for 4 year olds like they do for 2 and 3Y. But I did find your answer abit Ludacris because we all have horses that run 4F and 4F races go off everyday, right now there are two going off today and 2 tomorrow so far. I also believe there is skill involved, first is to be able to spot a 4F runner, some trainers retire a horse without trying it at 4F. Some swear on Jockey instead of Push with out training to see and others say Always run on push. Then comes picking the right jockey.
Yes I’ve tried them in 5f and yes I have raced them in mixed weights and yes I have ran them in 4Y A div even though I new it was out of their class. Some horses just don’t like weight like others do but will hold their own if in the same weight class.

I mentioned there was no Allowance races but really they are of no use any more due to 2 and 3Y olds both have the same weight and only the 4Y and up suffer now. I see no advantage in allowance races now.

I did find a race for one of my 4Y colts and its called Saturday Special. I see no special just a 4Y race with correct weights assigned.

	09-23-2017	22:20	09-22-2017 22:20	Dirt BEL	41	6f	Dirt fst	Saturday Special	4(1)	14400 + 8000(BC)
Claiming price 30000, 4yo and up Colts and Fillies Wt colts 122lbs, fillies 120lbs, entry fee 4000 Now back to my original question. WHY are the higher end claimers and division only for mixed ages, but low claimers and A division races are the only ones that are set right for 4Y olds? ADMIN, please answer.

[Cold Dog Soup]

Nearly all the 4F races are for mixed age by sex. This was done on purpose because they didn't fill. Mixing ages allows a few more to go off. The same reason the dash series was discontinued and cut back to just a weekly stakes instead of point series. Not enough entries. I know how you feel. When I played I had a ton of 4F horses and so many sit for weeks at a time because. The only races that filled were either the Dash races or cheap claimers. I remember several times being frustrated because I couldnt get a 15-20k claimer to run. Because I would be the sole entry. If i did get one to go off it was because I begged two other stables to enter the race just to help me out. Out of this came the combined 4F by sex to hopefully get more races to fill.

[Winner Circle Ranch]

Thanks Dog, But I think its time you reevaluated the F4 races. I just did a count for this month and found there was 49 F4 races that went off in the 22 days. The 10th and the 17th both had 7 each go off, only 2 days this month had no F4 races and that could be there was none scheduled for those 2 days, I had no way of checking. But when I see 7 F4 races go off in one day it sure as hell tells me there is a demand for them and the cards will fill as good as any other races I looked at. Why can't a few of these 49 races be for 4Y mix? Try one and I think you will be surprised.

My question is not getting answered because I used a 4F 4Y colt as my example. Lets try this: ANY 4Y old can find a 12000 claimer and under for 4Y with weight at 122 Colts and 120 fillies, but any higher claimers or Div they can't and have to run mixed ages. This is my question and the reason I have no choice but to retire my 4Y olds that won't carry the weight in mixed races.

EXAMPLE
============

	09-24-2017	14:15	09-23-2017 14:15	Dirt CAL	15	1 1/8m	Dirt fst	Open Claiming	3(1)	4725
Claiming price 12000, 4yo and up Colts and Fillies Wt colts 122lbs, fillies 120lbs, entry fee 1750

	09-24-2017	14:35	09-23-2017 14:35	Turf CAL	19	6f	Turf fm	Open Claiming	0(0)	0
Claiming price 20000, 3yo and up colts Wt 3yo 120lbs, older 122lbs, entry fee 2250 Day 1 = 1 F4 Races Day 2 = 1 F4 Day 3 = 6 F4 Day 4 = 1 F4 Day 5 = 2 F4 Day 6 = 2 F4 Day 7 = 3 F4 Day 8 = 2 F4 Day 9 = 2 F4 Day 10 = 7 F4 Day 11 = 1 F4 Day 12 = 2 F4 Day 13 = 1 F4 Day 14 = 1 F4 Day 15 = 2 F4 Day 16 = 0 F4 Day 17 = 7 F4 Day 18 = 1 F4 Day 19 = 3 F4 Day 20 = 0 F4 Day 21 = 2 F4 Day 22 = 2 F4 ============== Total 49 F4 Races went off in 22 Day

[South Jersey Stables]

Everything feeds off another. After this is done, you'll have the people with 3 year olds complaining that their races aren't filling anymore because the 4 year olds have dropped out. I looked at day 17 and those were almost all low level claimers. If you can find multiple 4f allowance level races with 3yo+ that have 8 or so in each, with half being 4 year olds, I guess you could split that. But then you'd have 4 horses in a race instead of 8.

[Cold Dog Soup]

This is the overall issue with the card. Not singling you out WCR just speaking relative here. About a month ago there was a issue raised by many saying the card was too big, that there were too many races. I spoke to Freddie about cutting the size of the card by about 25% Would take a couple of months to do so. As soon as I spoke with him there was about 3 stables that had made special requests of adding races for certain conditions and we decide to scrap the idea of the cut. When I last did a major overhaul of the card my goal was to have conditions and races so that every horse could race under ideal distance/conditions once per week. I think that was the fall of 2015. Since then the card has slowly been whittled away at a little nearly every month. Combining races so that more would fill while still hopefully giving horses a place to run. I thank the last number I heard from Freddie was ideally he would like to cut the card by another 25% but if that's done more and more issues are going to arise like this where stables are looking for a particular race. I have a few things I'm thinking about as solutions first being if Freddie can expand the time limits on when Trainer Created Races can be set up...i.e. several days in advance to provide stable the opportunity to set up specifically what they want and have more time to recruit other stables to run. Hopefully he will see this and respond. If this work well maybe then it would give us the ability to cut the card to a size that would work better. I know you get frustrated WCR but trust me we try to take into consideration what you are asking for.

[Winner Circle Ranch]

Everything feeds off another. After this is done, you'll have the people with 3 year olds complaining that their races aren't filling anymore because the 4 year olds have dropped out. I looked at day 17 and those were almost all low level claimers. If you can find multiple 4f allowance level races with 3yo+ that have 8 or so in each, with half being 4 year olds, I guess you could split that. But then you'd have 4 horses in a race instead of 8.

Everything we do in life will ALWAYS have a domino's effect and all we can do is try and direct the results to work for us, but there will always be negative with positive. Your worried about if 4Y have their own race class it will effect the 2 and 3Y races. i really don't see this as a threat and still believe this site is a 2Y old site and that is why admin has made the weight class even for 2 and 3Y olds. They should not need the help of 4Y olds now to fill cards, but the choice can still be there for the odd 4Y that can carry the extra weight. All I'm asking for is a few races that will give 4Y olds a chance to run with other 4Y and up at the 122lb colts and 120 fillies like they can in low claimers and A division only races.
You go on to talk about allowance races, I've already said THERE ARE NONE and if there was most allowance don't work now because of the even weight for 2 and 3Y, they have loss the purpose I think.
You go on to say Day 17 with 7 F4 races were mostly low claimers. I say the word MOSTLY can be used for 90% of EVERY race on the board. The point was 7 F4 races went off in one day showing me there is a call for F4 races and horses.

Dog, I know you try hard to please us and I remember the talk about cutting back the cards. But for some reason my question is being avoided even though its a simple one. So I'm going to draw my own conclusion and think its to make us retire our 4Y olds so we have to breed or buy new horses. Its Ok, every business out there doesn't want there products to last forever and believe success and profit is based on repeat sales.

Now this is where the DOMINO'S effect comes in! I have 21 4Y olds left in my barn that I plan on retiring this week after I check them with added weight. I have some 3Y colts I'm saving for age change like I've been doing in the past hoping that when they turn 4 I could race them before retiring. I see no need for that now and will retire them also.

I'm not doing this out of despite or to prove a point. I've been watching other great stables cut back to a small stable and wonder why, I think I know now and have decided to join them.
had close to 200 horses before age change, I'm down to 88 and when I retire my 21 4Y Ill be at 67 horses. Time for a well needed break.

[Orb Farms]

WCR,

After 1 season, if this is where you at, don't let it be because it gets more and more difficult to win at a 30% clip. I like you enjoyed early success, and then I had to adjust, because I was using Gelding as a means to inflate my wins totals and win%. After 4-5 seasons, I sacrificed about 8% in my winning %, and I completely changed my approach from 80% Geldings for my Colts, to about 20-25% Geldings, focusing on race placement without fear of losing the occasional horse, and BANKING on a certain fraction of the well-bred horses evolving into effective breeders.

It worked, and I suffered a temporary ebb in my wins and win% for 2-3 seasons.

.....THEN, I focused MORE and MORE on race placement. I believe this is my #1 strength by far.....placing horses where they belong, based NOT only on workout times, but on the race itself, going all the way to the edge or limit of someone potentially claiming my horse (i.e. a horse with good breeding and a 1.08.95 best 6F time placed in a $30k optional claimer).....This is an interesting proposition for the claimer, and a fairly sizeable investment for an unproven horse). This is a perfect example because a horse can turn out like Geneticist, who won her debut at optional $30k with GOOD breeding and modest workouts.....or a horse can turn out like STEP ON A LEGO, with INSANE workouts, and she is now 0 for 3, running 1:08.69 out of 2 EXCELLENT breeders, but cannot conjure up a winning stretch run.

So, My advice with someone as smart and a very effective student of the game is to tweak a little here and there, and maintain your success as much as possible....Things have a way of moving up and down, but your baseline success will shine through in the big picture, because you have put the time in to study the game.

A few tweaks, and you are once again a Top 3 or Top 5 Contender.

Good Luck friend!

Orb

[And More Racing Stable]

I have a few things I'm thinking about as solutions first being if Freddie can expand the time limits on when Trainer Created Races can be set up...i.e. several days in advance to provide stable the opportunity to set up specifically what they want and have more time to recruit other stables to run. Hopefully he will see this and respond. If this work well maybe then it would give us the ability to cut the card to a size that would work better.

This is a good idea but it wouldn't help WCR in his situation because you can't create a 4yo+ race on TCR. A couple of things missing in the TCR option are the ability to select 4yo+ and 2yo colts only. Also why can't we choose a claiming level for the TCR races? If these options were added it would alleviate situations like WCR's because a trainer could create the type of race he wants and then see if it would fill.

[Orb Farms]

I like the idea of races staying open until they meet the minimum requirements.

I would LOVE to see some races have a mandatory 5-horse minimum, and for example if 2 horses enter by the normal deadline, the race stays open, and then goes off at the end of the next day's card once it meets the minimum entry requirements.

This has worked effectively across digital racing worldwide, and would only make this - the best digital horse racing site - even more of "the best"!

Thoughts?

Orb

[Winner Circle Ranch]

This is a good idea but it wouldn't help WCR in his situation because you can't create a 4yo+ race on TCR. A couple of things missing in the TCR option are the ability to select 4yo+ and 2yo colts only. Also why can't we choose a claiming level for the TCR races? If these options were added it would alleviate situations like WCR's because a trainer could create the type of race he wants and then see if it would fill.

Thank You AMRS, I never noticed that about TCR races not having the option to create 4Y based races. What a crock of shit that is and only helps prove there is no room here at Digitaldowns for 4Y olds even though Admin says they are doing everything they can to keep our older horses alive and racing. Dam I wish I had of seen that before, thanks for pointing it out.

[Winner Circle Ranch]

WCR,

.....THEN, I focused MORE and MORE on race placement. I believe this is my #1 strength by far.....placing horses where they belong, based NOT only on workout times, but on the race itself,

Orb

Orb, You hit it right on the nose and I remember when i first started here you told me to go slow, wait for the right race that suits my horses. I listened to you and at that time had no 4Y olds yet. Your a good mentor and this is why I want changes for 4Y. I refuse to keep placing them in mixed ages with the extra weight, its embarrassing to me and the horse.

Congrats on your % of 32.48. small Stables is working well for you. Ill be there soon.

[Lone Star Stables]

We added 4yo colts and fillies to the TCR , I will look at race card see where we can improve the 4yo races .

We also changed the weights to match new weights .

We still can not do claimers with TCR because the original purpose was for Trainers to be able to make a race in chat or forum that could go off quickly . The claimer need time to make it fair for everyone to put a claim in on a horse . It could easily be taken advantage of by a trainer running a late night claimer then entering horse into some of the starter allowance races .


We will try to card any race requested , we would also like to see more 4yo racing . The issue in the pass was that many retired colts at 3 and fillies at 4 limiting the 4yo that can race . Then you add the fact that some 4yo hit the wall and can no longer race . With the new weights and horseshoes we are trying to push the wall back , We also thought about raising the age limit by one year for each and to 15 races ran . This will help keep horses running longer and will also make it harder for horses to become breeders . If a horse hits the wall at 10 or 11 races then you will see that it hit the wall on the 12 race and ran very bad for races after 12 . That will help you see that this horse has a very short career and it might pass it on to its offspring .

[Lone Star Stables]

change 3000 to 1200 ?

answer to what question . We added TCR for 4yo .

It has been slow so reason we did the Breed 2 get 1 free . Hope that helps get a few more 2yo on the track .

Ask for any specific race we will add them . we would like to see more 4yo + racing